AN ANSWERE VNTO SIR THOMAS MORES DIALOGE

VOLUME 3

The Independent Works

LOCATION

KEY Commentary Side Textual Bibliographic Scriptural

of the church had moued me. I answere / as they abuse that sayenge of the holy man / even so they allege al the scripture and all that they bringe for them / even in a false sens. S. Augustine before he was conuerted was an hethen man and a philosopher full of worldly wisdome vn to whom the preachinge of christe is but folishnesse / saith paul .j. Corin. j. And he disputed with blynd reasons of wordly wisdome agenst the christen. Neuerthelesse the ernest liuinge of the christen acordinge vn to their doctrine and the constant soferinge of persecucion and aduersite for their doctrines sake moued him and stered him to beleue that it was no vayne doctrine / but that it must nedes be of god / in that it had soch power with it. For it happeneth that they which will not heare the worde at the begynninge / are aftir warde moued by the holy conuersation of them that beleue.As Peter warneth christen wiues that had hethen husbandes that wold not heare the trueth preached / to liue so godly that they might winne their hethen husbandes with holy conuersacion. And Paul saith how knowest thou christen wife / whether thou shalt winne thine hethen husbande / with holy conuersacion ment he. For many are wonne with godly liuynge / which at the first ether will not heare or can not beleue. And that is the auctorite that S. Augustine ment. But if we shall not beleue / tyll the liuynge of the spiritualtie conuerte vs / we belike to byde longe ynough in vnbeleffe.

I had not beleued the gospell / excepte the auctorite of the church had moved me. Against the Epistle of Manichaeus called Fundamental (AD c397) 1.5 (PL 42.176; CSEL 25/1.197; 1NPNF 4.131). When his Manichaean opponents used the Gospels to confirm the authority of their teacher Mani, Augustine replied that the Gospels are given to us by the same Catholic Church that has condemned Mani's teaching. In Christian Doctrine (AD c396–97) 2.8.12 (CCL 32.39; 1NPNF 2.538), Augustine describes the formation of the canon, not by decree, but by consensus. Unio Dissidentium quotes neither of these two passages on the church's validation of the books of the Bible. In arguing for the authenticity of the seven sacraments, Henry VIII appeals twice to this famous proof-text: Ch. 10 on Confirmation (Assertio, CC 43.189); Ch. 12 on Orders (Assertio, CC 43.208). For More, the saying expressed well the priority of the church, with its instinct for the true books, over Scripture: CWM 6/1.181/11–12, 249/21–22; 6/2.526, 655–56. (The reference on 6/1.181/10–12n should be to Responsio ad Lutherum, 1523 [CWM 5/2.735f], cf. 5/2.742–43). Cf. also More's Supplication of Souls, 1529 (CWM 7.182/14–23) and Confutation, 1532–33 (CWM 8/2.676/20–22, 736/25–738/18). This text is More's most frequently quoted passage from Augustine (CWM 8/3.1634), cf. Marc'hadour, Bible 4.201–6. On the importance of Augustine's saying for More, cf. Gogan 74, 95, 146, 198–99, and 295–96. Eck, like many Catholic opponents of the Reformation, cited Augustine 's text in his argument that Scripture is authenticated by ecclesiastical authority (Fraenkel 28; Battles 13). Tyndale maintains that Augustine was not referring to hierarchical authority as the authenticator of Scripture but to the "ernest liuinge" [D5] of the Christian people, which persuaded Augustine to take up the Christian Scriptures for personal examination. Confutation explicitly rejects Tyndale's interpretation of "authority " as "vertuouse lyuynge" (8/2.734/13) because Augustine saw that the church was a "company of both good and badde" (8/ 2.734/17). Later (8/2.796/10–12), More argues that, if Augustine accepted the Scripture because of the good example of Christians , he would be moved by historical not feeling faith.

The true meaning of the wordes of S. Augustine.[[1573]

preachinge . . . folishnesse. Cf. 1 Cor. 1.23.

] 1 Corinthians

1. Cor. 1. [1531]

wordly] worldly [1573]

wordly wisdome. 1 Cor. 1.17, cf. "wysdome of wordes" (Wallis 348/2; TNT 244C; KJV), cf. [A3, “wordlie purposse” and commentary note].

] 1 Corinthians

beleue] [1573], belue [1531]

1. P. 3. [1531]

Peter . . . conuersacion. Cf. 1 Pet. 3.1–2.

] 1 Peter

1. Cori. 7. [1531]

how . . . husbande. Cf. 1 Cor. 7.16.

] 1 Corinthians

If they . . . vnbeleffe. This long passage is quoted almost verbatim at CWM 8/2.730/9–32.

And when they aske whether we receaved the scripture of them? I answere / that they which come after receaue the scripture of them that go before. And when they aske whether we bele